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Topic: New site wishlist (Read 914 times) |
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StarStuff
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Well OK so it's not January, but damn I am bored of being at home with the kids already and want something interesting/productive to get my teeth stuck into! So, here goes - as per Rizzen's request, my suggestions for site improvements.
Old problems:
An end to the time outs/socket errors
An end to messages going to the wrong recipient
Posts made to private forums (I mean the ones you set up as a campaign forum, rather than the game boards) should be truly private, rather than appear in the "10 most recent posts" list as they do at present
New ideas:
(OK so these are technically OLD ideas that were floated ages ago when the whole site revamp debate was ongoing, rather than NEW new ideas... and they are probably not my ideas in the first place either - they are just the things that I personally would like to see  )
Filtering of games by time in the games schedule, so that you can choose to see all the games that have been scheduled at times you are available to play, rather than get an email notify for individual games as they are scheduled
Filtering of games by expansion/version/type in the games schedule, so that if you don't want to see PW events or NWN1 events or whatever, you don't have to
Well, I am sure that I will think of other things as time goes by, but those are the ones that spring to mind straight away. Anyone else got anything they want to add...?
What I would like to see in return from Rizzen is a monthly update (or more frequently if time permits, but at least monthly) in this thread, to say which ideas are feasible and which aren't, and which have already been addressed and which are on the "to do" list. I think that's a reasonable request, and I hope it's one that is accepted.
--StarStuff
Edit: As Rizzen hasn't seen fit to respond to this or numerous other requests made to him by various people on the forums and via PM/email, the discussion has now moved on somewhat.
Currently, some members of the community are discussing our options wrt financing a new, community-owned site that doesn't have all the bugs and connection problems associated with NWC, but still retains all the best features of this site. Proposed features of this site are still being discussed in this thread at the present time; management issues relating to the proposed new site are taking place here: http://nwn2connections.worldofrain.net/phpBB2/index.php courtesy of Kalia D'Malen.
Contributions are welcome from all members of the community, in both places. Please join in and have your say, so that the site ends up providing you with the service YOU want to see. 
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| « Last Edit: on: Feb 9, 2006, 8:49PM » |
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Gulfwulf
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I think a filter by game type (Original Campaign, SoU, HoTU, or CEP) would be a great addition. It could be implemented along with the time filter so people can do both at the same time.
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egpaul
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Maybe a real player matching service. For instance, each player creates a list of preferences represented by various symbols and adds themself to a board/list of people looking for games. People can then invite folks from the board based on the information posted... the idea needs some fleshing out but after a long day at work that's as creative as I'm getting.
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| « Last Edit: on: Dec 30, 2005, 3:26AM » |
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Gulfwulf
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That would certainly be better than the current system. I usualy ask people I know if they're interested in filling a vacant spot before I post any openings now unless I'm starting a new campaign.
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Gulfwulf
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on Dec 30, 2005, 4:35 PM, Lazybones wrote:| The ability to schedule a recurring game automatically. For example, when creating a game, you could set it to "Monday nights at 7 p.m. PST", then be prompted for how long the game should go (say, 8 weeks). The scheduler would automatically schedule those 8 sessions in the same time slot. Then the DM/host could edit each instance as needed. The ability to do automated invites of the same 6 players to all 8 games would be handy as well. I do this sort of thing all the time in GroupWise at work but I don't know how hard it would be to implement in NWC's system. |
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Now that's a good idea. Depending on how data is stored here, it shouldn't be to big of a problem to do. When you save a game "template," it'll send out invites to any DMs selected from your buddy list, so I don't see why it can't also be changed to include players.
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Kalia D'Malen
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Let's bring this one back to the forefront, as J'Dai suggested. Here are my comments from the bug forum that are probably more germaine to this forum:
I hate to say this but since the owners rarely if ever show up, why not:
1. Set up a Pay Pal "business" specifically for the pooling of resources and funds to buy server space. It doesn't -have- to be a physical server in someone's living room. It can be a remote server that a staff of interested people can access and maintain. That way, bug issues, issues with timeouts, etc. can be handled by the company that maintains the servers rather than having the site dependent on those who don't give a rip any more.
2. Buy the tools and software needed to, at the very least, keep the server functioning as it is with player matching, player/DM stats, etc.
3. Buy a new domain name neverwinterconnections.net .us .biz .whatever. It could even be hyphenated. The new site wouldn't necessarily be a competing site. Rather it would be one that would, on paper at least, be for NWN2 and providing services similar to this site's. Once the basics were up and running, NWN matching could be instigated as well.
4. Using the funds donated by the core fans (see #1), hire a company to design the site's layout to facilitate easier navigation. I remember my first days here. 
5. Once the site is designed and uploaded, "hire" (LOL!) a staff...and I mean a rather large one to avoid problems like we've had here... to maintain and improve the site. NWN news is the minimum along with forum mods but people could also be added for interviewing HoF candidates, players/DMs, reviewers for mods, etc. There's a LOT that THIS community could do to enhance what's already here and make this site the best out there. Sure, lots of places do reviews, interviews, etc. But when paired with the player/DM matching service and stats capabilities, NO ONE out there would be able to touch its uniqueness.
I feel like such an anarchist since I have loved this site for a long time. Even though I'm relatively new to PLAYING here, I always was a visitor and reader of the site. That said, the community is drifting away and if the current owners aren't interested in chasing them down and bringing them back and reviving the community once NWN2 is out, then I say....
POWER TO THE PEOPLE!
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Starbuck79
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While I agree in principle with the ideas, the real problem will be the financing. I think it's possible to raise enough money to buy a server to host, but you are going to have a hard time finding the money to hire a development company and a full time stayy.
The only way this is really going to work is to have people with the right training, and who love NWN, to donate thier time to do it. Which puts us back where we are.
I might be able to swing 5/month, 10 max but there is no way that will be enough with even the hard core players. A true pay/play service of this kind will fail.
Further, requiring payment might get fuzzy with the NWN EULA. I'm not sure. I know you can't charge for PW access, but this is something different.
I'm not trying to be a buzzkill here, just realistic.
What we really need is someone with webdesign/server database maintence experience.
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StarStuff
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[Moved my post from the Bugs forum, to keep J'Dai sweet.  It looks like I had the same ideas as you, Starbuck: I wish now that I'd read this forum first for a change. ]
I have no idea about the costs, but it would probably be easy enough to find out online, if you were determined enough to put the time and effort into researching it.
I know what you mean about feeling like an anarchist, Kalia. Thing is, the original concept of the site is just so great that it's a real shame to let it go to waste because RL has overtaken the present owners. Would it ease anyone's conscience, and make things less legally fraught, if we were to contact Rizzen and offer to buy (or whatever) the idea and some of the design from him? Who knows, he might actually be relieved to see his idea carry on but not have to worry about finding the time or money to maintain it! (Or it might get him online and posting about his new site at long bloody last. )
On to a couple of specific points...
| Using the funds donated by the core fans (see #1), hire a company to design the site's layout to facilitate easier navigation. |
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I don't think there's any need to do that. Between us, the site users have enough expertise to come up with a design and layout that is similar enough to what we already have, but with the functionality tweaked a little to make some features more user-friendly. Hell, with a little time, *I* could redesign the front page! lol and I know very little about HTML, so if I can do that, I am sure others can do more. (See BBP's offer. )Why pay for stuff you can do yourself for free?
| Once the site is designed and uploaded, "hire" (LOL!) a staff...and I mean a rather large one to avoid problems like we've had here... to maintain and improve the site. NWN news is the minimum along with forum mods but people could also be added for interviewing HoF candidates, players/DMs, reviewers for mods, etc. There's a LOT that THIS community could do to enhance what's already here and make this site the best out there. Sure, lots of places do reviews, interviews, etc. But when paired with the player/DM matching service and stats capabilities, NO ONE out there would be able to touch its uniqueness. |
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Again I'm concerned about paying out for stuff unnecessarily, mainly because I'm not sure there is that much money available. The overheads for the site would be pretty huge if there were staff salaries as well as the server rental to pay for every month, and tbh I don't think that there are enough people who use the site that would be prepared to cough up large amounts of money every month. Your average MMORPG costs around £10/month, so I doubt there'd be many people who'd be prepared to pay even that much for what amounts to the privilege of using a forum. I could be wrong here, mind, but I'd say that realistically, all we'd be able to afford on a monthly basis as a community would be the server rental; anything else would have to be done for free by the community itself.
As for your suggestions as to what to include on the new site: well, I may be biased, but really I don't bother with the news section here. I rely on people posting information and links in the forums as a result of their having looked elsewhere (Bioware, the NWN2 forums, etc etc) to know what's going off, and besides which developer interviews have never really interested me that much anyway. Bioware already does that, so why do we need to try and duplicate it? It would simplify the site an awful lot if it were trimmed back down to the matchmaking and the forums, plus some links to various helpful pages on this and other sites, and currently active PW's, and the like. *shrugs* That's just my take on it, I'm not expecting what *I* get from this place to be the same as everyone else. If other people really like having the news section and would be prepared to pay someone to write it, that's their call.
--StarStuff
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| « Last Edit: on: Feb 9, 2006, 12:01PM » |
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Kalia D'Malen
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When I said "hire" a staff? I was being facetious. As with all "fan" sites, the staff is a corps of volunteers. So not to worry about asking for or needing a lot of cash beyond the cost of server space.
As for buying the idea/site from Rizzen: I had the same thought. However, getting him to respond to emails or posts here has been problemmatic. But, of course, this is the simplest most logical solution after -Rizzen- upgrading and preparing the site for NWN2.
As for the news: We can get an RSS feed from the major NWN sites: NW Vault, Bioware's NWN2 forums, Obsidian's official site (wishful thinking ).
And, as I said on the bugs forum, I think a minimal number of interviews would be nice. HoF winners come immediately to mind but a few here and there that are -site specific- would be nice.
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| « Last Edit: on: Feb 9, 2006, 12:36PM » |
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Kalia D'Malen
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As an idea for a dedicated server host:
http://www.lunarpages.com/plan3.php
Not a bad price, IMHO. I have a personal site hosted by these guys and it is lightning fast and always up. I'm sure there are tons of others out there but this give us a price basis to work from.
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Bigbluepaw
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Well, I am definitely onboard. A few comments...
First, I definitely like the fact that the community is initiating this effort. I think that if any individual, and I had considered it, developed another matchmaking service, then we open ourselves up to the same flaws that have been issues with this site. If the community truely owns it, we can pass ownership as necessary to keep it alive. Might not be a bad thing to do in general for an 'evergreen' effect.
Second, while I know we are all excited about finally addressing many of the faults with this site... heck I know I am... I think we should take Carlo's suggestions to heart. We might want to focus on the core infrastructure first with the simplest of UIs to get the most basic functionality there first. While there are a few things definitely wrong with this site, it does have some very non-standard functionality. We probably should think hard about the object model and the relationships between the objects. That should be mapped out and then executed upon.
Third, regarding what should be focused on after the core infrastructure, we should try to come to a consensus about that... and a forum would be a great way to do it. Perhaps a Bioware Guild would be a good place for that discussion given it's independence from this website. We could go in lots of different directions after the core stuff
Fourth, we need to think about staffing. I am definitely bought into this idea and am definitely willing to contribute. I've been involved in usability designs and would be willing to help with this going forward. But we are going to need someone to build the object model, start scripting behavior and putting together html. Perhaps we could recruit at a variety of websites and keep it organized in the same Bioware guild.
Fifth, I like the idea of paying someone to host the website. I've done so with my personal website and the benefits are huge; it's always connected to the internet as opposed to someone's cable modem, it's centrally accessible to many assignable website administrators as opposed to one along with the idea of backups. Perhaps we could cover the costs, although the limiting factor might be size. We need to understand and plan for how many gigabytes this things would take up eventually. Another good discussion for the Bioware guild.
Well, that's all my thoughts so far.
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| « Last Edit: on: Feb 9, 2006, 2:47PM » |
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Bigbluepaw
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on Feb 9, 2006, 2:43 PM, Bigbluepaw wrote:Second, while I know we are all excited about finally addressing many of the faults with this site... heck I know I am... I think we should take Carlo's suggestions to heart. We might want to focus on the core infrastructure first with the simplest of UIs to get the most basic functionality there first. While there are a few things definitely wrong with this site, it does have some very non-standard functionality. We probably should think hard about the object model and the relationships between the objects. That should be mapped out and then executed upon.
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Let's do the most basic and simple stuff first.
on Feb 9, 2006, 2:43 PM, Bigbluepaw wrote:| Third, regarding what should be focused on after the core infrastructure, we should try to come to a consensus about that... and a forum would be a great way to do it. Perhaps a Bioware Guild would be a good place for that discussion given it's independence from this website. We could go in lots of different directions after the core stuff |
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I suggest we don't copy NWC's features just to do it, we should understand what the needs are first and then fill the needs as necessary.
on Feb 9, 2006, 2:43 PM, Bigbluepaw wrote:| Fourth, we need to think about staffing. I am definitely bought into this idea and am definitely willing to contribute. I've been involved in usability designs and would be willing to help with this going forward. But we are going to need someone to build the object model, start scripting behavior and putting together html. Perhaps we could recruit at a variety of websites and keep it organized in the same Bioware guild. |
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This can't be one or two people. It will take quite a few folks to get something like this off the ground.
on Feb 9, 2006, 2:43 PM, Bigbluepaw wrote:| Fifth, I like the idea of paying someone to host the website. I've done so with my personal website and the benefits are huge; it's always connected to the internet as opposed to someone's cable modem, it's centrally accessible to many assignable website administrators as opposed to one along with the idea of backups. Perhaps we could cover the costs, although the limiting factor might be size. We need to understand and plan for how many gigabytes this things would take up eventually. Another good discussion for the Bioware guild. |
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Debating whether a member of this community should host the website on their personal server or paying someone to host it.
on Feb 9, 2006, 3:09 PM, StarStuff wrote:| Secondly, the community is based here, not on the Bioware forums, and so I think the discussion should remain here. I find the Bioware site's slowness and general design to be even worse than NWC, and would much rather not have to try and navigate around there as well as over here on a several-times-a-day basis. (I did that for the NWCon guild and quite frankly it was just too much of a pain in the ass for me to be bothered to contribute anything meaningful to the discussion.) |
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Well, Rizzen owns the server and the site... not the community. We've seen the realities of that played out in long-standing bugs and non-responses to requests for improvements.
If we are going to replace this website, then it seems only logical to me to hold the discussions somewhere else. If this site ever goes down... which is actually what we are suggested with this proposal... then we have a record of how, when and why we made certain decisions saved somewhere else.
Rizzen can certainly participate. It would be tremendously helpful to have him participate or even volunteer the infrastructure of this website. However, I think we are at the point where we have to part ways.
Lastly, this discussion is going to bloom like crazy. There are going to be LOTS of threads. I certainly wouldn't want to disrupt the current discussions and threads by taking over this forum in that manner.
*shrugs*
Kalia and I are already exchanging some ideas in the guild.
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| « Last Edit: on: Feb 9, 2006, 4:44PM » |
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StarStuff
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Well, exactly: IF. Yes it's highly likely, but it's not a done deal - yet. I have no problems being involved in a discussion with the rest of the community here, in public, where the community presently is, while no final conclusions have been reached... but a select few members (because that is how it will go if it's held in a guild on another site, even though you've clearly stated that everyone that applies will be accepted) discussing proposals in private before the end of the month just isn't something I want to get involved with. *shrugs*
The community is small enough as it is, why divide it any further? Just create a campaign forum here and add people to the member list if they've contributed to the thread, that way it will at least be visible in the "most recent" list if anyone from the community is lurking rather than posting. And if you want to keep a record of what's been said, just copy the entire webpage onto your hard drive at the end of every day - easy enough to do. *shrugs again*
If you continue the discussion off-site then good luck to you, I'll drop by in March and see where things are.
--StarStuff
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Kalia D'Malen
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To a small degree, Star, I agree with the "behind closed door" thinking of a Bioware guild. Still, I, personally, see the necessity of a separate place to discuss ideas and flesh out the -desires- for either an upgrade to this site or for a completely new site.
It isn't to say that the discussion can't continue here either. Of course it can and should. At the same time, I don't feel it's dividing the community to have a separate forum for tossing around ideas.
I have offered to create a subsite on my personal site for this discussion and would include a very public, very viewable, non-application/membership forum for anyone's perusal.
I guess I look at it like this: I wouldn't discuss overthrowing the government in the White House.
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| « Last Edit: on: Feb 9, 2006, 5:03PM » |
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